IDEXX Laboratories, Inc. (IDXX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

May 29, 2024

NASDAQ US Health Care Health Care Equipment and Supplies conference_presentation 32 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

Jonathan Block

analyst
#1

All right, guys, great. Next up, we have on stage, IDEXX Laboratories, the worldwide leader in animal health diagnostics. And joining me on the stage is the company's CFO, Brian McKeon, on the left; and Mike Lane, EVP and General Manager, Reference Lab and Information Technology, a long title, hopefully, I got it all. Congrats. Thanks, guys, for doing Jaws & Paws again this year. I'm going to start where I probably get the most questions and it's with -- around visits. And a lot of us can see the data. I'll run some numbers by you. For 2Q to date, the data source that we use has clinical visits essentially 0. I mean, down 0.1%. I went back and I looked at the -- this same source has run an 8-quarter average, that's roughly 50 bps better than your clinical visit results. So Brian, I guess the good news is seemingly better than the 1Q '24 exit rate that you guys talked about, that was down 1.5% but still below IDEXX' long-term build or LRP that you guys talk about, which is plus 3%. You talked about capacity constraints, macro headwinds.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#2

Maybe just help us out, is it more one than the other? Has it evolved when we think about those dynamics that seem to be pressuring visits?

Brian McKeon

executive
#3

Yes. Thanks, Jon. So I think in terms of clinical visits, as you pointed out, that's one kind of contributor to the overall growth equation for the company that's been more dynamic the last couple of years. If you could set some context, we had historically in the U.S., 2% to 3% in the same-store clinical visit growth for a number of years. During the pandemic, that jumped up to about 5% annually. We went through a transition in the U.S. in 2022, 2023, where we saw a pullback in capacity at the clinic. So I think that was a key dynamic. There was likely some lapping of sort of the puppy boom as well, just in terms of adapting to some of the unusual things that went on during the pandemic period. And we -- in the fourth quarter of last year, we saw a relatively flat clinical visit trends. We knew that we were still working through some of the dynamics with the clinics on just managing staffing and helping them with that aspect of what is an ongoing kind of evolution, I think, for the clinics just to adapting to the higher level of demand and other things that are going on just the labor market. And to your point, I think we saw a relatively softer-than-expected visit trends in Q1 coming out of the quarter, down about 1.5%. I think the staffing continues to be, I think, a constraint to growth. I think that's the right way to think about it is that it's -- some of the clinics are still working through. I think we're engaging actively with them and bringing productivity solutions and trying out new innovations that will help manage that over time, and we see a lot of positive factors to point to and just in terms of the optimism around the sector and willingness to invest that we think will be helpful over time. There may be a consumer impact here that we're seeing. I think the -- as we've discussed many times, we kind of pay attention to things like wellness versus nonwellness trends. We might expect to see kind of consumer impacts a bit more on the wellness side, just relatively more discretionary. I think in the second half of 2023 and into Q1, it's somewhat softer. So I think that could be a factor. And I think the broader theme is the our business and the sector is incredibly resilient, but we're not immune to consumer impacts and there's been a cumulative impact of inflation, I think, on consumers that may be in affecting demand. But net-net, we're -- we try to capture that in the near-term outlook, and I think continue to be very optimistic about the longer-term view on the sector and hopefully, we'll see a stabilization of those trends like we expected in the second half of this year.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#4

And that was great. That was great color. I think every quarter, we do our surveys, and we usually ask the vets if they're optimistic or pessimistic, and most are optimistic, then we pipe them in and we say sort of what's the thought behind that reasoning. And I'll do something with my hands, so no one on the webcast can see. But initially, there were constraints around capacity were sort of front and center and macro was behind that. And now it seems like it's gone the other way where macro seems to be the main headwind. Capacity is still an issue, to be clear, but maybe taking a little bit more of a back seat. What's your reaction to that? Do you think that has swapped a little bit over the past 12 to 24 months?

Brian McKeon

executive
#5

Just building on what I said earlier, and I think it's pretty much what you're saying. I think staffing and capacity are still a constraint. And I think there may be a macro impact here that we're seeing at the margin. I think the bigger theme is it's incredibly resilient sector. We're growing well. We're delivering good financial performance and as we continue to invest, and we're excited about the innovations that we're bringing to the sector, particularly in the coming year. And so -- and against a backdrop where we're expanding instrument placements. And I think our customers are, to your point, optimistic on what the -- what demand -- how demand can evolve over time. I don't know if you want to...

Michael Lane

executive
#6

Yes. Let me add a little color, Jon, to your comment there. As an example, I was in a large veterinary specialty referral hospital last week, but I think it's representative of what we see across the sector. This hospital had a major ER practice, full practice. So growing demand, but a bit constrained in the ER from a staffing standpoint, 2-hour wait, but these pet parents are waiting patiently and you can just feel the bond that's in the room. And talking to the hospital director, the Medical Director, they're focused on growing productively. They're using IDEXX point of care, real-time. In this case, you can picture sick patients, such value of having those results right there in the practice. But they also use the reference lab as an extension of the practice in terms of some of -- helping to manage some of those staffing constraints. And then they've got IDEXX Practice Management software bringing it all together. So I think it's representative and it's why we're so focused on helping practices with innovations like inVue, with Vello, these innovations that take work out of workflow and make it easier for them to meet this demand at times when they have that constrained staff.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#7

Okay. Great. Great color. And guys, as always, if you have any questions, just throw your hand up or even shout out. I'm going to pivot and do a little bit of a...

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#8

Quick comment here. On the specialty [ set for ] the referrals, we -- typically, we see 2 hours would be a really short wait. We see 4 or 5 hours, people having to usually come back the next day.

Michael Lane

executive
#9

Yes. There's certainly -- so it's 2 hours, but there are some people that leave, right? And this particular hospital tracks that. They may go down the street to a different hospital. This was in a metropolitan area.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#10

[indiscernible] What do you see [ across ] that? Is 2 typical or is what we're seeing more typical? [indiscernible] especially as we're [ seeing ] earlier [indiscernible]. That's not really what [indiscernible], we can't [indiscernible].

Michael Lane

executive
#11

I think that's accurate. I think we continue to see pent-up demand. This is a theme that we've been talking about for a while. I think the key thing we're trying to highlight there was a dynamic that was going on with a pullback in capacity. I mean a reduction in hours. I think we've moved past that.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#12

[ Sat ] arrays being pulled back or what...

Michael Lane

executive
#13

Right. That was a very thing that we could see in the data. We have access to PIMS data, you can see the operating hours for the practice. To your point, I don't think that there's been a -- the theme hasn't been, oh, that's coming back. I think there is an ongoing kind of management of capacity dynamics and ongoing management of the staffing in a more challenging environment. And there's a range of kind of how practices are adapting to that. So I think to your point, we continue to see -- we saw a 10% expansion in the pet population. So we know that there's a lot of pets out there, and they're owned by people that increasingly care about pet health care and have a humanization of their relationship with the pet. So we definitely see this as a long-term favorable trend. And I think some of this is just helping the clinics to adapt. And we're seeing our customers leaning in more here. I think organic volume growth is becoming a more important theme for practices. I know you're going to have some folks visiting today to talk about how they're managing their businesses. And I...

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#14

But you've got a massive opportunity there, right? If you look at where you're positioned, and your point-of-care solution [ optimization ]. That's the opportunity, right? The opportunity is to circumvent some of this staff shortages, et cetera, et cetera. So quick question on that is, what would point-of-care, what initiatives do you take in to train the staff in these places so that they're up to speed as quickly as possible? Running -- because this is a [indiscernible] word, an instrumentation business [indiscernible] for many years, actually not relying on the hospital or the staff themselves, but going in there, making sure that it's a 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off [indiscernible].

Michael Lane

executive
#15

Yes, do you want me to take that? Yes, we do that. We do that. A big part of our commercial engagement model are just not sales professionals, but also field support that follows and trains and educates on workflow across the whole point-of-care suite. But it's not just point-of-care testing begets testing, and there's certainly opportunities to help the practice with efficiency with point-of-care testing, but also utilizing the reference laboratory as an extension, we see that as well. And then bringing it all together with IDEXX software. So we do what we're doing, what you're describing, but that's the job, and that's where practices are leaning in and wanting us to do more and more of.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#16

[indiscernible] the impact of your software [indiscernible] and whether it depends [indiscernible]. I think that's [indiscernible].

Brian McKeon

executive
#17

Yes. I think it's unique to IDEXX' approach to the market. We have an integrated business model that we've been focused on organic growth for decades, and it's with a belief in the long-term potential for pet health care. And if you look at how we've approached it, we've been agnostic to in-clinic versus reference lab. We want to support our customers in a way that makes sense for them and it's integrated with software. We are adding to our capability around the software. The -- obviously, the PIMS system itself, we're a leading cloud-based provider, work seamlessly with our solutions. We are wired into the practices. So we're basically able to add innovation to our instrumentations through -- on an ongoing basis. We're providing solutions that are getting at pain points, indeed the new solution that we'll be launching later this year is things like ear cytology and blood morphology, those are common kind of pain points within the practice that we can help solve. And we're adding to the capability of big practices to be able to engage with the pet owner and drive engagement with the clinic. So Vello, which is a pet owner engagement. It's a key part of our future software strategy. We're excited about the opportunities that, that's going to bring. And I think when we -- most importantly, when we're talking to our customers, we're talking about solving the problems that they're very focused on solving, too. To your point about how they're going to grow their businesses is going to be centered on services and diagnostics is a key part of that. It's the most profitable part of the practice. And so we see this as a win-win. And I'm really encouraged. We saw this significant expansion of demand in pet Healthcare through the pandemic, and we're growing off of that. So I think we're learning to adapt and get ready for the next phase of growth in this sector and very excited about how we're getting at it.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#18

And can we talk a little bit about the guidance cadence just for this year? So I think -- for the second quarter, if I've got it right, the organic revenue growth guidance is about 6% to 8.5%, midpoint, just north of 7%. 1Q was 6.8%. So -- if you look at 1H, you might land around 7%, okay? Full year is 8%, obviously implies an acceleration.

Brian McKeon

executive
#19

Midpoint.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#20

Midpoint, pardon me, is 8%, obviously implies an acceleration in 2H. I think you mentioned there's a day's benefit in there. It will be the launch of inVue, right, that you mentioned earlier. And the other dynamics that you want to call out in terms of what should aid that 2H versus 1H and the relatively modest acceleration that you have embedded in the back half or the midpoint of the range.

Brian McKeon

executive
#21

Sure. So just as a caveat, we're not updating anything today, but just reframing the guidance we discussed in our last call. To John's point, our midpoint outlook for would imply approximately 7% organic growth in H1. It would imply approximately 9% H2. So there's a 200 bps step-up, 50 bps of that is days, that will be principally in the third quarter. We have some more favorable lapping second half of the year, Jon, in areas like LPD. As you know, China has been kind of a headwind in that business. We're working through that, targeting higher growth in our software business or recurring software revenue, so that will be helpful. And the underlying assumption on the things like the clinical visit growth levels, we're assuming a flattening of trends second half at midpoint versus the down 1.5% that we implied for the second quarter. So those are kind of the bridging items. We've captured the new platform launch in our outlook as well. But the -- we -- it does rely, to a degree, on an improvement in the underlying sector trend. And we continue to see positive dynamics supporting that. And we're positioned to deliver good results within the ranges that we've talked about. And while we continue to invest towards the long-term growth potential that we see, we're very optimistic about the future for the -- for our business, and I think we're in a good position to build on the momentum that we have.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#22

Okay. And one of the areas that you certainly have some solid momentum seems to be EMEA. You break out your EMEA and APAC revenue in your filings. APAC, as you mentioned, has been sort of running into headwinds largely factored by LPD. But I have 1Q '24 EMEA revenue that was up 14%, sort of another quarter of mid-teens growth. And there's FX in there. But at a high level, EMEA seems to be showing some solid momentum. Can you talk about what's driving that? And then you do give us the CAG Dx recurring international, which is below that. So maybe just talk about the dynamic, and this will be specific to Dx recurring between EMEA and APAC would be helpful.

Brian McKeon

executive
#23

Maybe just on the clarification, I would say that Europe and Asia Pacific were similar in Q1. If you take out FX in both very solid growth rates, and we're very -- feel very good about the momentum that we're building there.

Michael Lane

executive
#24

Yes. Yes, I would just add, excited about international growth opportunity. Certainly, Europe, 7 commercial expansions, Jon, in the past 4 years. So that's part of it. Part of it is also really honing the commercial model that we've fine-tuned here in the U.S. In EMEA, the commercial team has not only expanded but has the programs, the multimodality solution. We've matched this with the investment on the lab side. As you know, not just commercial but also with our investment in Kornwestheim, our largest laboratory in the world, which really forms the hub and spoke core of our European network. So we've got the lab service capability. We've got the point-of-care capability. We've got the commercial execution. And I think that combines to what you're seeing.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#25

Okay. In terms of the overall traction both in EMEA and APAC with a CAG Dx recurring. Okay. And I'm going to pivot a little bit. I'm going to go through the growth algo, and I've got the CFO up here, so I might as well pain you a little bit and go through this process. And look, we've done a lot of work on this over the past couple of years and the CAG Dx recurring organic growth guidance for this year, so the Dx recurring is 8.5%. The Street is at 10% to 10.5% next year, 2025. We're Street-low. We're 9%. And again, CAG Dx recurring organic. So for price, this year, you're taking 5%, which was lower than last year. I would assume your 25% price increase is likely below this year's 5% contribution. We just sort of see inflation coming down. I know we've already had some panels today that have talked about pricing and how it's been pretty rich for the past 12 years. So if next year, it's 4%, I'll still be above your LRP of 3. But if price steps down next year by 100 bps and The Street has you accelerating the 8.5% to 10% and change by 150 bps, you've got to find a 250-basis-point accelerant from either visits or the IDEXX premium in terms of how we define it. Just walk us through that, Brian, right? I mean, Street has like -- what gets you there? What are the drivers? Would one be more visits than innovation, vice versa? Or do you see more of an opportunity with price being more durable than maybe I'm giving you credit for?

Brian McKeon

executive
#26

So just in terms of our growth algorithm as a company longer term, the biggest driver of our long-term growth is going to be driving adoption of IDEXX innovations and expanding utilization. So that is the core driver of the long-term growth that it gets at the premium that you mentioned. And we're really excited about the momentum that we have on this front. I think our execution has been excellent as we work through kind of building out this higher growth post the pandemic and work through some of the clinical visit changes that have gone on. We continue to have excellent net new business gains. Our retention levels are as high as they've ever been. And we're really excited about the innovation pipeline that we've got coming to market that also supports things like our price realization. Do you want to talk about some of the innovation?

Michael Lane

executive
#27

Yes, absolutely. We've touched on a few -- maybe I can just add a little color. inVue, very encouraging feedback from customers as they're learning about inVue. One thing to keep in mind is ear cytology, blood morphology, when you're looking through the microscope, that's time-consuming in and of itself. But recognize, you're also looking at a slide. So every one of those slides needs to be created in the practice, which is technique-intensive, labor-intensive. So inVue removes that. It just fits so nicely into the VetLab suite of instruments with just like ProCyte and Catalyst, load and go. And so it's really encouraging feedback that we have on inVue. Brian mentioned Vello also to help practices with this client engagement in supporting clinical visits very positive feedback there in terms of significantly reducing no-shows. And then providing prompts, including remembering to bring the fecal sample in, prompts during the visit, follow-ups. So these innovations, just back to that practice that I mentioned earlier, these are the things that practices are leaning into because they don't want the wait in the ER room, if you're the Medical Director, to be 2 hours or 4 hours, right? They don't want that. So they're really leaning into these technology solutions that we can help them with and help them grow faster and help them grow productively.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#28

Brian, if I can just go back to maybe the growth algo, or the construct, sort of the A plus B plus C. So sorry, to get to the 250-basis-point accelerant that I alluded to earlier, is there one variable because the way that I look at it is you have a lot of great innovation that's coming. You have inVue, you got something else. You haven't told us yet, but you got something else. And then there's other ongoing new tests that you're always rolling out. But those really wouldn't be a CAG Dx recurring contributor so much in '25, right, as we've been through this...

Brian McKeon

executive
#29

Build over time.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#30

Yes. Yes, you got to build it over time. So if the IDEXX like what accelerates the IDEXX premium, if that builds over time? Price comes down, premium is flattish. Are you sort of -- not you. Is The Street making this bet on visits being the accelerant to get to the 10% to 10.5%?

Brian McKeon

executive
#31

I don't know the answer to that. You know what our focus is going to be on continuing to expand. We see a long runway for adoption of premium instrument installed base. We had 8% growth year-on-year in placements in the quarter. We've got double-digit growth in our installed base globally that's benefiting from our ProCyte One or hematology platform, which is expanding at a rapid rate and continued growth in areas like SediVue and now we'll have a new platform launch this year, and we'll have another platform to follow in the future. So I think we've got a number of things as well as ongoing test innovation. I mean, we're continuing to expand like what we can do on that front. And as we continue to build these relationships with our customers where we've got an ecosystem that is enabled by enhanced insight, DecisionIQ. We're increasingly leveraging the power of the data that we have access to and our knowledge across the sector to enhance the ability of clinicians to provide services. We're just very excited about our ability to continue to expand and I think, Jon, obviously, we're -- our long-term view is that clinical visits are going to expand. We see -- this is a sector that was able to grow 3% annually, including same-store sales, clinics are adding practices, they're building new practices. In fact, where we have specific programs targeted at customers that are doing greenfield clinic expansions that are enabled by our kind of solutions. So we think we're really well positioned to be aligned with that kind of growth, and we see that as a potential positive factor over time. So I think those are -- that's why we continue to have a long-term view about double-digit organic growth. And something that we're investing towards and earn really good returns when we're able to achieve that and very confident in the long-term opportunity that we have for our business.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#32

That's great.

Unknown Attendee

attendee
#33

Is there a component that [indiscernible]. If there is going to be a massive aging dog population [indiscernible], this so-called puppy boom, that's coming '25, '26, '27, that dog boom pushing dog owners [indiscernible].

Brian McKeon

executive
#34

It will be -- we highlighted this in, trying to recall -- I forget dates now, in 2022, I think, when we saw the initial boom, we -- I think we added 50 bps to the long-term growth rate, which was static, by the way. It was assuming the same kind of behavior that doesn't assume that testing increases. It's sort of like if everybody tests the way they do today, over time, that should be a tailwind, to your point. And I think I'd add another dynamic to it is pets are living longer. So it isn't just that there -- the existing pets are going to -- there's sort of an, I don't know what the analogy is, the rat-through-the-python kind of thing. We'll see this puppy boom play out over time. But with enhanced care and capabilities, enhanced therapeutics that you'll hear about today, the quality of pets' lives is improving and they're living longer and there's a lot more diagnostic testing as they get older. So I think those are longer-term tailwinds for us. And we're trying to lay the foundation that will enable us to be really well positioned to help our customers grow when that plays out over time.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#35

And Brian, just to shift over to innovation, and you have a lot going on there. Maybe just for inVue, we should think about an overlap of the SediVue practice, having a greater likelihood to be your early adopter of inVue. Is that a fair statement to make when we're kicking the tires...

Brian McKeon

executive
#36

It's certainly a testing category that's solving a pain point in the clinic. And I think we would usually see, I think, early adopters being customers that are bought in to the in-clinic solutions and willing to lean in on that. I think the, to Mike's point, there's very positive feedback because this is such a common -- these are common use cases that people can -- there's a direct line here. So I think the -- and I'd add that I think our commercial capability is as good as it's ever been, even stronger than it was when we had a SediVue launch. So I think it will have the kind of capabilities that we've been able to leverage, the cloud connectivity and -- so we're -- and we'll be able to add to the testing menu as we launch. So I think it's -- yes, we'll play that out. We point to SediVue as an example of how these things build, and I think that's a pretty good example of what...

Jonathan Block

analyst
#37

And one more and then I want to leave time for the last or the next system. I always get tripped up on this a little bit. What we sort of see running through the P&L, a realized ASP of $13,000 to $15,000. I mean your instrument placements have been so strong. But sometimes you can have a lower realized ASP because there's like a an upgrade or an international that might carry a lower ASP. But we all sort of do our work, and we're getting to inVue adopters. Do we sort of see that translating on the P&L of a realized ASP of low to mid-teens in that regard?

Brian McKeon

executive
#38

Yes. We'll get more specific with those assumptions as we get closer, but I think there'll be an instrument revenue, obviously, component of it, and most of that gets recognized upfront. And the bigger story here is going to be there's a building new stream of recurring revenue. And even more importantly, it is another point of dialogue with the clinic to talk about adopting the IDEXX ecosystem and working with all our solutions as you might imagine, sales people are going to be quite excited about having something new to talk about. And Mike runs a reference lab business. The lab business is excited about engagement with the customers on a new platform because we do 360 agreements that expand our reference lab business. So I think we're -- these are kind of things, to your point, that build over time, kind of that's the nature of our business model. And so we look forward to sharing more on that as we advance our thinking.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#39

Okay. And in the 2, 3 minutes that we have left, the next point-of-care system, few details to date other than it exists and it will be incremental to the current point-of-care suite. There have been some thoughts. We actually had a doctor up here earlier who alluded to a new system that might be a point-of-care screening tool for cancer diagnostics. Carries this like massive theoretical TAM associated with it. But maybe you can talk to what went wrong for other offerings that have been in the market to date. We saw PetDx, you had an agreement with them. I think unfortunately, they've had to shutter. There's a Volition test, Nu.Q, that I think has gotten some mixed results. So maybe -- there is this massive TAM, but why have the current offerings arguably stumbled on what has been some of the on the [ challengers ]?

Michael Lane

executive
#40

On the cancer Dx side. Yes, let me add a little bit of color. We say cancer, but cancer is complicated and it's multiple diseases and conditions. And sadly, it's a leading cause of death for dogs. So Jon, to your point, I think there's a lot of focus on how do we bring earlier-stage testing capabilities, and you mentioned a few of those. IDEXX is already a leader in cancer diagnostics when you look at clinical pathology, anatomic pathology, radiology, these are advanced consulting services that we provide to practices, about 1.5 million cases a year that we're supporting these suspected or cancer cases. But it's late stage, it's later stage. And so what you see is a focus on innovation. And I think this is an area certainly where IDEXX will continue to focus on innovation to support the practitioners, whether it be general practitioners or specialists with bringing that earlier because we know if we can detect cancer sooner, the outcome certainly will be better. So I think it's an exciting area in the sense that we and others are focused on it, and we'll continue to innovate to help patients and practitioners in this area.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#41

And as someone who runs a reference lab, why is this a point of care test and not a reference lab test in that regard? I mean you always hear about greater accuracy, better sensitivity, specificity at the lab relative to point of care. Why would this be a point of care test?

Michael Lane

executive
#42

You may know I ran the point-of-care business for 15 years as well. So the -- so what we've done over time is bring reference lab accuracy to the point of care. You see that with inVue. You see that with ProCyte, you see that with Catalyst. And so it's a high bar to bring that to the point of care, but because we're in both modalities, we know how to do that. And then we also bring these together because practitioners, they want to use both. They want to use both. You may have that sit back to that emergency practice, point-of-care, real-time results, essential, but you may need more comprehensive results from the reference lab. Alternatively, you may start with a preventive care panel at the reference lab and then you're going to monitor something ongoing because 1 in 4 preventive care panels, something is discovered, something discovered more. So it's a combination, but it's about bringing -- I think to your question, these are reference-lab-quality platforms for example...

Jonathan Block

analyst
#43

Occurring at the point of care.

Michael Lane

executive
#44

For example, inVue to the point of care.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#45

Okay. And so maybe just to conclude, when we look at those tests that were out there that arguably haven't gained a lot of traction, would the thought be -- and I'm oversimplifying, but maybe the PetDx price point was a little high, the Nu.Q sensitivity specificity could be improved. There is this gap in the market where IDEXX can go ahead and capitalize that between maybe more cost-effective, better accuracy and in there somewhere...

Michael Lane

executive
#46

Well, in general, diagnostics is certainly a performance category. So what you described in terms of specificity, sensitivity, what have you on a given diagnostic, not just cancer, is essential and price point is important as well. And certainly, to get this early stage, you really want it part of the preventive care panel, right? You want that in the screening panel. So price point is important as well.

Jonathan Block

analyst
#47

Okay. More for you, but we've got to stop there. As always, guys. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Brian McKeon

executive
#48

Thanks.

Michael Lane

executive
#49

Thanks, Jon.

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