Genmab A/S (GMAB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

January 11, 2023

Nasdaq Copenhagen DK Health Care Biotechnology conference_presentation 42 min

Earnings Call Speaker Segments

James Gordon

analyst
#1

Good morning. I'm James Gordon, JPMorgan European Pharma and Biotech analyst. And today, I've got the pleasure of introducing the Genmab presentation. So you're going to hear from Genmab's CEO, Jan van de Winkel, and then we can have a Q&A here afterwards for the further 20 minutes. Thanks a lot for joining us today, Jan. Looking forward to the presentation.

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#2

Thank you very much, James. It's really a pleasure to join you all again at the annual JPMorgan Healthcare Conference as we kick off 2023. So slides from today's presentation will be available for download at our website immediately after the event. Let's get started. I think I can do that myself. Forward-looking statements. As you are aware, this presentation may contain forward-looking statements and as such, contain certain risks and uncertainties, as you're all familiar with. Over 20-year history. We have in that history we had a laser-sharp focus on harnessing the power of human antibodies to develop differentiated antibody therapeutics. And behind this focus is an unstoppable team and a strong core purpose that guides our work. Extremely -- we have an extremely successful strategy and an inspirational and ambitious vision for the company, which you see here on this slide. We've never been in a better position to achieve our inspirational vision than now, and we have a consistent and solid track record of success, as many of you are aware of. Our world-class team is really experienced and dedicated and motivated to make a real difference for patients, that in the end is the real goal for the company. And the results of that drive is that we have a number of proprietary antibody technologies that fuel first-in-class or best-in-class pipeline for Genmab. We have an expertise that makes us the partner of choice for a large -- we have a large variety of collaborations with industry leaders across the innovation ecosystem, not only in biotech but also with data sciences and digital companies now. We are -- our work is supported by extremely strong financials, which allow us to actually keep investing in opportunities ahead of us. So taken together, we have built a very solid foundation that has supported the evolution into a fully integrated biotech innovation powerhouse. The successes have only been possible because of what makes us unique. We firmly believe in the natural ability of the immune system to fight against disease. We use our deep understanding of disease mechanisms, targets and antibody biology to invent proprietary antibody technologies. And our in-house expertise is then matched with strategic partnerships that help us take products further than we could do on our own or to gain access to high-quality, unique disease targets and also cutting-edge technologies that can be combined with our own suite of technologies. So we leverage the combination of cutting-edge scientific capabilities, innovative scientific approach, expertise in translational research and strategic partnerships to create a robust pipeline of investigational medicines. So let's look at that pipeline then. The summary of our innovative clinical pipeline, as it exists today, is presented on this slide. We actually have investigational medicines created by Genmab science or technologies that are currently in active clinical development. We have now 9 programs; it went up from 6 to 9 last year. And these programs we all hold 50% or larger ownership of these products. And most of these molecules are actually first-in-class and have the potential to be best-in-class, including epcoritamab, which is now in Phase III development. And tisotumab vedotin is approved for certain patients with cervical cancer in '21. So we have 6 approved medicines, powered by Genmab innovation. And this year, very excitingly, that may go up to 7 or even 8 in 2023. So let's look at our future pipeline then. Our maturing pipeline is the result of a world-class R&D engine. We're highly confident that unique next-generation antibody technology platforms will continue to grow our pipeline. We don't have a single unmodified antibody in our pipeline anymore. And then the reason we are so confident is that we already have been doing this for a number of years. So the chart on the right, you see the composition of our pipeline, both preclinical and clinical programs. And actually the majority is based on our own proprietary next-generation antibody technologies. You see about 50% DuoBody, about 20% HexaBody and 30% is a mix of different technology platforms. So the approval of TIVDAK in September 2021 introduced a critically needed treatment option for patients with advanced cervical cancer with disease progression on or after chemotherapy. This represents a very significant scientific advancement as this is the first and only ADC, or antibody drug conjugate, for treatment in this patient population. So the first -- it's also the first Genmab-owned therapy to receive regulatory approval in the United States. And we have seen a very successful uptake since launch in a very limited market along with Seagen. We have a very broad development program in place for TIVDAK. We're going to move to earlier lines of therapy for cervical cancer, and we will evaluate the molecule in other solid tumors. Last year, we have actually presented Phase II data of the innovaTV 207 study at ASTRO earlier in the year at head and neck cancer symposium. This year, you will see more head and neck cancer data from Seagen. We also had an oral presentation of the innovaTV 205 in different combination arms last year at ASCO in June; more to come this year. So let's now move to an even more exciting molecule. This is a T-cell engager called epcoritamab, which we are developing in collaboration with AbbVie. This is a very exciting bispecific antibody, which is actively studied now in diffuse large B-cell lymphoma and follicular lymphoma, which is the 2 most common types of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. And it also has the potential to be used in a much broader range of B-cell malignancies, and we are going to pursue that. So we believe that the mechanism of effective T-cell redirection against CD20 has the potential to fundamentally disrupt and transform the treatment paradigm for patients with B-cell malignancies across all lines of therapy. So we continue to show data with epcoritamab that supports its potential to be best-in-class. We have positive top line results from the first cohort of the so-called EPCORE NHL-1 study in large B-cell lymphoma last year in April, followed by a late-breaking abstract presentation at a presidential symposium in Vienna at the European Hematology Meeting in June last year. We had 10 clinical presentations at ASH in New Orleans more recently, including 4 oral presentations. So we have a lot of data coming on epcoritamab. This molecule is differentiated because of the convenient subcutaneous route of administration. It's off-the-shelf, and it also offers timely treatment and consistency, and we believe that this is really going to be an advantage for the positioning of EPCORE. So based on the data of the EPCORE NHL-1 study, Genmab submitted a BLA to the FDA in relapsed/refractory large B-cell lymphoma. We received priority review, and we are very pleased with that with a PDUFA date of May 21 this year. End of December, we also submitted with our team in Japan for approval in Japan. We had very positive regulatory interactions there. And AbbVie submitted in between those submissions, an MAA application to the EMA in relapsed/refractory diffuse large B-cell lymphoma. So let's look at the partial list of clinical trials here. We have, together with AbbVie, a very ambitious vision for the development of epcoritamab. We have a broad and comprehensive development program across aggressive and indolent histologies in place. So building on both single-agent activity and most importantly, of course, in combination with current or emerging or future standard-of-care therapies in several B-cell malignancies and to achieve the full potential of epcoritamab in the future. So we look forward to initiating multiple new Phase III studies as well as Phase II studies. And most recently, we actually started a study in relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma Phase III together with R squared, epcoritamab with R squared. You'll see more coming in the coming months. So other promising investigational medicines, which get a lot of attention right now, GEN1046 and GEN1042, which are both developed in collaboration with BioNTech. They are first-in-class bispecific antibodies in development for treatment of solid tumors. And we have seen some very exciting data so far that includes preliminary data for GEN1042. There is a lot of discussion, I can tell you at this conference, on that right now in head and neck cancer. This was presented at ESMO IO in December last year. We have also an alliance combining here Genmab's expertise in antibody biology and bispecific antibodies with BioNTech's immuno-oncology know-how. And that creates a very powerful partnership. We have over a handful of joint programs now with BioNTech. And we are actively expanding the collaboration with BioNTech and look forward to working on additional investigational medicines in the future. All of these programs, it's 50-50. So we actually share 50% of the expenses, 50% of the upside in the future. And the first of this new generation of investigational medicines is GEN1053, which is a very exciting HexaBody program, targeting CD27 that just moved into the clinic last year in solid tumors. And we had the first preclinical disclosure of data at SITC last year. We have also in development GEN1056, which is an antibody product that we have not disclosed the target for, in co-development again with BioNTech for solid tumors, and that will be used in combination with some of our other immuno-oncology programs in the future. So we have 3 additional Genmab-owned investigational medicines in the clinic right now. On the left, you see DuoHexaBody-CD37, which is -- it's now involved in first-in-human clinical trial dose escalation. We're nearly at the end of the dose escalation, and we're going to combine it with epcoritamab to come to a chemo-free combination regimen for B-cell cancers. Then HexaBody CD38. This is a very exciting potential next-generation CD38 targeting molecule with very, very prominent preclinical activity against CD38 positive cells. We actually presented the first data from the dose escalation part of the study at ASH in December in New Orleans a month ago. And then we have another exciting T-cell engaging antibody, also bispecific, targeting CD3 and B7H4. It's a bispecific T-cell engager, where we actually presented some initial preclinical data at SITC last year. And we actually are moving forward this program very aggressively. And hopefully, at the end of this year, we'll have some dose escalation data for you. So the expanding and maturing pipeline is really possible because of investments in key areas, which you see displayed here on this slide. In research, we are building on a strong record. We have state-of-the-art R&D facilities in both the Netherlands and in the U.S. now. They're both growing, and we continue to invest in new antibody technologies and formats. We're actually investing heavily in development because we're focusing on scaling that up so that we can actually rapidly move from early to late-stage clinical development and do multiple late-stage clinical trials in parallel. I mean the whole strategy of Genmab is actually aimed at identifying 2 or 3 potential winners and are massively expanding the clinical program for those potential winners because that is the best and most optimal way to build value for stakeholders. So we actually see a significant potential to drive insights through data sciences. We have invested heavily in data sciences over the last years. And we believe that actually data sciences and real-time integration of translational research are key to accelerate product development in the future, ensure that the right patients -- the right therapies get to the right patients more effectively than it is currently common. And then commercialization, the last part, we're investing in that very significantly. We have a highly experienced team in place. We are ready for launching epcoritamab. We had a first successful launch of TIVDAK in the United States, and we actually are very much gearing up to make the launch for epcoritamab a success, hopefully this year. Underpinning all of this is investment in key enabling functions, of course, to really support the growth and manage the risk going forward. Now very exciting slide when you look at the validation of our breakthrough innovation at Genmab. It's already seen in 5 approved medicines by partners. Let's move on the first left, you see DARZALEX. This is a molecule which many of you know. And that molecule has truly redefined the treatment of multiple myeloma. It already generated about $6 billion in sales in 2021. The '22 numbers are not yet there, but they will come this month via Janssen. And Genmab is entitled, as many of you know, to 12 -- to between 12% and 20% royalties on net sales, which drives a lot of recurring revenue for the company. Then moving to the right. Kesimpta is the very first B-cell therapy that can be self-administered by patients at home. It's now developed by Novartis. It generated $372 million in sales in 2021. And Genmab is entitled to a solid 10% royalty on net sales for Kesimpta. And that is a molecule which does better and better and better. It has already been given to over 27,000 patients, and that number is rapidly increasing. Then the third one, TEPEZZA is the first and only ever FDA-approved medicine for the treatment of thyroid eye disease with Horizon Therapeutics, and that molecule will soon move to Amgen because of the acquisition of Horizon. And Genmab is entitled to mid-single-digit royalties of net sales. And that is also a molecule now shaping up for a very robust market. You've heard probably Amgen speak at this conference on the potential for TEPEZZA. Then RYBREVANT, a bispecific antibody. It's the very first bispecific antibody ever to be approved in lung cancer, by J&J. It's the first product which came on the market with Genmab DuoBody technology to receive an approval. And Genmab is entitled to milestones and royalties between 8% and 10% on net sales; also very significant income driver, we believe, in the future. Then there is a second DuoBody product on the market now. It's called TECVAYLI, also by Janssen. It's approved now in the U.S. and in Europe. And we are entitled to milestones and mid-single-digit royalties on net sales on TECVAYLI. And then there's another one coming potentially this year. And that is talquetamab. We have -- Janssen has filed to the FDA in December and to EMA in January. It's another bispecific antibody for treatment of multiple myeloma. We get very similar royalties as on TECVAYLI. And these medicines, all powered by our technology and innovation, exemplify the commitments to applying world-class antibody expertise to create truly differentiated antibody therapeutics with the potential to fundamentally improve patients' lives. And the success of the approved product also demonstrates the benefit of working collaboratively with strong partners, and I've mentioned a few here on this slide. There is complementary expertise to Genmab in terms of technologies, capabilities or knowledge across the whole ecosystem of pharma, biotech and also academia as well as data sciences companies. So 2022 is anticipated to become our 10th year of profitability, which is quite unique for a biotech company. And the products on the market that we have discussed provide us with very significant recurring revenue growth. And this growth actually allows us to continue to invest in our pipeline and our organization to allow us to create significant long-term value and evolve for continued success of the company, which gives us a strong backbone of significant underlying profitability and many of you will like that. Then in 2023, we will continue to work towards our new 2030 vision. The KYSO antibody medicines from Genmab are fundamentally transforming the lives of people not only with cancer, but also other serious diseases. And we actually flagged up that we will add one more disease area on top of oncology to the focus areas for Genmab. And we will start talking about that as soon as we have product candidates slotted to be moved into the clinic, and we are already testing a number of candidates as we speak. So bringing our own medicines to patients, epcoritamab, we look forward to expanding the further development with new Phase III studies and excitingly launching epcoritamab in the U.S. and in Europe, subjective, of course, to approvals in both of these territories this year. And then if epcoritamab is approved in '23, it will join TIVDAK as the second Genmab-owned product on the market. We plan to work with our partner Seagen to continue to broaden the clinical development program for TIVDAK and establish it as a clear choice for patients with cervical cancer. Then we have a world-class differentiated pipeline, and I highlighted some of the programs here. And this year, we very much look forward to the clinical expansion cohort data for both actually, for the 4-1BB targeted bispecific antibodies, 1042 and 1046, which are in development with BioNTech. We anticipate expanding and advancing other earlier-stage programs and include a potential for more INDs or CTAs this year, and we hope to move 2 to 3 new molecules into the clinic in 2023. We have the right team and culture in place. And that is essential for our future success. And we intend to continue to scale our organization based on our expansive portfolio developments and business needs. And we intend to leverage our solid financial base. The last numbers were from November. We have over $3 billion in cash and no debt to support our growth, which could entail external opportunities as well in this year. So in summary, my last slide, I have only 12 seconds left but I'll try to bang it in here, we have a laser-sharp strategy, which will effectively drive us towards our 2030 vision. We are solidly on track, we believe. Our vision will continue to act as a guiding light. Our first own medicine was launched in '21, TIVDAK, and we anticipate the second one actually in the near term, and it gives us a strong rationale to make focused investments to make the most of opportunities ahead of us. So we continue to be disciplined in our approach, as you know it from us. We are confident that as we look into the future, that you will see the realization of our continued evolution into a leading fully integrated biotech innovation powerhouse. We have never been in a better position to achieve the vision of transforming the lives of patients with cancer and other serious diseases. And that brings me to the end of the presentation, and now we get into an even more lively Q&A, I hope, James.

James Gordon

analyst
#3

Thanks a lot, Jan. Lots to talk about. So I've got a couple of e-mail questions already, but anyone have a question in the room? In that case, I'll go to the first question I received, which was, to paraphrase slightly: epco, you're about to launch the product but how much of the cost associated with epco is Genmab going to have to fund? And how quickly could this be a product that contributes significant profits to Genmab?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#4

I mean we -- it's a 50-50 with AbbVie. So 50% of the cost will be for us, 50% will be for AbbVie. We have massive investments scheduled for the coming years, and we should because we actually are going to put a very comprehensive development program in place. And the initial market, as we already flagged up earlier, is quite limited. It's only like between 3,000 and 3,500 patients in the U.S. in the original -- in the initial market. So it will be very limited, James. But then very quickly, over the coming years, we'll move it into follicular lymphoma and into other B-cell cancers. And that will initially be, of course, in the relapsed/refractory setting, but then we move to second line and frontline, but that will take actually a number of years. And I would say not too different from when you think about the successful trajectory for daratumumab that also started very slowly in the beginning with actually fourth-line therapy for DARZALEX and then move this way to frontline all in parallel. And we actually look forward to actually executing multiple Phase III programs all in parallel and there may also be Phase II regulatory studies which qualify for initial regulatory registration of the product. So I think it will be a whole setting. It actually will take a number of years before we actually can book profitability based on epcoritamab and that's entirely how amazing medicines are being developed also by other companies.

James Gordon

analyst
#5

And I saw in your slides, you talked about filing an sBLA for the product this year. So what additional filings will we be filing for?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#6

There's a number of candidate filings. And, of course, it all depends on the timing when do these studies read out. But very -- at the minimum, we would hope to file in the relapsed/refractory follicular lymphoma setting on the very first study, the NHL-1 study. We have basically all the patients in, and that study is slotted to read out this year. And we have seen some very encouraging data already in follicular lymphoma with only epcoritamab. So we hope that we can actually file an sBLA for that setting. And potentially, it could also be a Phase III study. The initial Phase III study could also read out this year. We don't know whether that will bring us to a filing. So we have kept it actually quite conservative in the targets for this year. So there's actually a number of candidates where we could actually move for an sBLA filing. But we think that the follicular lymphoma one is the most certain.

James Gordon

analyst
#7

And you're not the only company who's going to be launching CD3, CD20. So how are prescribers or patients going to choose which CD3, CD20 to get?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#8

I mean it remains to be seen, James, and I think this needs to develop. I think this is going to be a paradigm change, I think, for patients with B-cell cancers. I think one of the differentiators is that epcoritamab is subcutaneously administered and it seems to be very, very easy to combine with other medicines, which is a very strong play. It's off-the-shelf. So -- and actually, when you look at the data of some of our cohorts, it's very comparable to CAR-T data. And right now, the paradigm is in the United States and also in other countries that many of these patients are initially with diffuse large B-cell lymphoma treated in community healthcare centers. And when these patients get more and more refractory to the current lines of treatment, they need to be sent to cancer centers or to large academic hospitals because then they could potentially be treated with CAR-T. And that is really not advantageous for either the patients or for the doctors because they really don't like to send the patients in that phase of their disease history to these larger hospitals. And one of the things which could happen with epcoritamab, and I think it's a bit too early to conclude that now, James, is that actually these patients could in the future potentially be treated and continue to be treated in the community healthcare centers with epcoritamab probably in combination with other medicines. And that would be an enormous [ play ]. And that way, you would actually create a market which is not existing for the CD3/CD20 T-cell engagers. And yes, there is a number of other competing molecules also moving towards advanced lines of development. And I think we'll have to see how these molecules will look relative to one another. I think it's a bit too early. But up to now, I think, when you look at it in an analytical way, is that the epcoritamab data are either the best or at least on par with the best at this moment. Safety-wise, combinability-wise and convenience-wise, I think it's definitely at the top. And we hope that really in combination with very good marketing by AbbVie and Genmab, Genmab will lead the commercialization in the United States and in Japan and AbbVie will actually lead in the other countries the commercialization, we can actually build a stronger and stronger market for epcoritamab, and this is going to be taken very, very seriously. I can tell you that we have a very experienced team in place with a lot of talent coming from other companies with many, many years of experience in hematological malignancies. We are actually doing a lot with digital information, data science actually by combining different data sets. We actually believe that we can target epcoritamab much more selectively to the right hospital, to the right centers where patients are being treated. And we will see, James, over the coming years how this will pan out under the assumption that we get a product approval this year.

James Gordon

analyst
#9

Maybe in the interest of time, I'll shift gears a little bit to talking about some other assets within the pipeline. And so you're also talking about the 2 products you have, which are bispecifics that target 4-1BB. And I think if I think back to last year, it sounded like you were probably only going to take one of the assets forward, whereas looking at the presentation, it suggested that CD40 bispecific is definitely going forward. And the 4-1BB/PD-L1 also might well be going forward?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#10

I mean we are super enthusiastic about both molecules. And as -- I mean you learn a lot initially and then definitely the PD-L1/4-1BB bispecific has a little bit more challenges at the safety level. We now think it's very manageable. You can actually with dexamethasone and actually with some dosing pauses, you can actually quite easily treat patients there. We are treating actually multiple types of cancer, and you've only seen the lung cancer data up to now. So we learned a lot over the last 2 years. And we think we will find actually the right areas where we can actually position that molecule. And then we will have to see, James, how much it will be competing with other molecules, for example, targeting PD-1 or PD-L1 in that area. So -- but we believe that there is a way forward for that molecule for sure. And then the CD40/4-1BB molecule has a cleaner safety profile and some amazing initial efficacy; we never expected that. I mean we always believed that the CD40/4-1BB molecule was going to be complemented with a PD-1 blocker. PD-1/PD-L1 axis blocker because that sets a dominant axis in immuno-oncology. And -- but despite initially testing it as a monotherapy, we saw that 50% of the patients show disease stabilization. And we actually saw a number of very, very long-lasting and deep responders with the CD40/4-1BB, which we didn't expect. And then more recently, we have moved to frontline therapy where we actually combine it in frontline in 4 cancers: lung cancer, melanoma, pancreatic cancer, and head and neck cancer. And we're now very rapidly moving through those cohorts that we either complement the CD40/4-1BB bispecific antibody with pembrolizumab, which is one of the best, we think, PD-1/PD-L1 axis blockers over pembrolizumab plus chemo, depending on what the standard of care is in those different cancers. And you've seen some of the head and neck cancer patients -- that was only a limited data set of a few patients but we are rapidly now increasing the number of patients, but we saw basically 4 out of 4 head and neck cancer patients responding with very deep responses, which are long-lasting. So yes, we are really super enthusiastic and I think you heard probably the same from BioNTech earlier this week here at this conference. We are super enthusiastic about the potential. And yes, what I said in my presentation, you can anticipate to see data from all of these cohorts this year. And we don't know yet how we can optimally position CD40/4-1BB in each of these tumors, and we will likely have to interact with the regulators to really see, based on the initial data, and contextualizing that data. First of all, is the standard of care, what is seen with the current optimal regimes, how quickly we can move to registration trials and how quickly we can execute there. But you've heard from my presentation that we're going to scale up the development team and getting fully ready to do multiple Phase IIIs in parallel and this is definitely 2 candidates, James, we are really excited about. And I mean all we want to do with this company is to actually impact the lives of as many patients as we can and we're already impacting hundreds of thousands of patients right now with the molecules that's on the market. And we hope that, that number goes up very steeply over the coming years. And I'm pretty confident that once we can in a fundamental way impact the lives of people, that we also are able to successfully run a business which will give back rewards to the stakeholders. So that is the whole setting and the whole ambition for this company.

James Gordon

analyst
#11

And 1 follow-up question I had is in terms of how to maybe segment the 2 products, could it be that the CD40 bispecific is going to be for frontline use and the PD-L1/4-1BB could be more for refractory patients?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#12

That is one of the possibilities. I think it's too early, James, to really go so far. I don't want to go that far because I don't know what the exact positioning will be. But it could also be is when this is -- I mean 4-1BB antibodies have not shown to work really well. They are either toxic in earlier situations with companies moving 4-1BB antibodies into the clinic, or they were not toxic and very safe but then they were also not effective. I think these molecules that we are now working on are super-potent and also safe to give to patients. And for example, the CD40/4-1BB antibodies that could potentially be the universal potentiator of pushing the immune system in continuous action against cancer. And that could potentially be a combination product for many, many different approaches. But I think it's too early right now to really draw that conclusion. I think the exact positioning will get clear in '23. We had hoped to already have that ready by '22 at end of last year. But we now, I think, are accelerating the recruitments of patients, and I think that will become clearer over the coming months. We will flag up actually to the market, probably on a quarterly basis, when we intend to share data. And then in between, we will hopefully already get feedback from the regulators on some of these areas. And yes, we are very, very enthusiastic about moving to the next stages for both.

James Gordon

analyst
#13

And shifting that, one other area people were interested in was the arbitration on DARZALEX with J&J. So we had a previous round of arbitration that Genmab didn't win. You got a second round of arbitration. The question is when could we hear more about that? And how are you feeling about the arbitration?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#14

I mean I'm optimistic about this arbitration, but in the end, it's down to the judges, down to the panel. I'm not a legal expert at all. And I'm certainly not skilled in New York legal law. So what we have to do is wait on the verdict from the arbitrators. But basically, the second arbitration is basically asking a very simple question. I mean one of the outcomes of the first arbitration in the award -- so-called award was that the Genmab needs to contribute to the Halozyme royalties for the subcu product for daratumumab called FASPRO. And the reason that this is seen as a separate product. I mean that was very clearly stated in the awards. And then what I understand from the lawyers and from our advisers is that this actually then sets a new standard, then this award from that moment on, when it's accepted by both parties and neither Genmab nor J&J did challenge that award. So it's now really the new standard. So the new standard then dictates that if that is a separate product, then Genmab is entitled to another 30-year royalty term for the FASPRO product from the moment of the initial commercial launch, which was May 2020. So that means that would bring the time line from the end [ '20s ] early '30s, James, to like May '33, which will be a few years longer, which are very, very important because of the projected sales growth of daratumumab. Then you talk about billions of dollars basically also for us, and that would happen. And we, of course, are then also entitled to milestones. And we already sent J&J a bill for $405 million. And until yesterday, it was not paid; I heard from our CFO. So that would be another consequence that we will get another sizable payment from J&J on the assumption that the panel would rule that. I mean timing. What I know is that the first arbitration took 18 months and we filed our second arbitration in June last year. And that means that this year should again bring us to 18 months, but what I really hope from describing the case here to all of you that this is a much more simple case than the first case. This is essentially reading the legal documents, and then tell us whether the conclusion was indeed that this is a separate product. That's the only thing we need to hear. We hope that actually the arbitrators, James, take less time than the first time. But we don't have any influence over that. So I cannot give you any guarantee on what the timing will be. What I can tell you is that all the materials have been exchanged. The panel is in place. And I think everything is ready to go for the panel to make up its mind and come with a verdict on the arbitration. What I also don't want to do here is to let you all pencil in the potential upside of this -- outcome of this for Genmab because that would then create another overhang, which is what we had for the first arbitration. So I want to tell loud and clear here on the record, don't count on anything, on zero, because I don't want an overhang anymore. And then it's pure upside. When we prevail, it's pure upside and then we can all cheer and pop the champagne here together.

James Gordon

analyst
#15

Thank you very much. Maybe keeping with CD38. You've got a follow-on product; it's a GeN3014, so HexaBody CD38. A couple of questions on that. One, could you summarize what did we learn on the data that was the dose escalation data. And how much does that tell us what it's actually going to look like when we compare it to DARZALEX. Can we already say this does look clean or more effective than DARZALEX?

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#16

I think it's too early, James, to say that. This is the most heavily beaten-up population of multiple myeloma patients ever in a clinical trial. You cannot quote a population which is more heavily pretreated. They had a median of 7 rounds of prior treatment, up to 13 rounds of prior treatment, believe it or not. So these patients were in very, very poor shape. And most of the patients were underdosed actually. It's a dose escalation. So most patients were underdosed. Despite that, we saw about 40% responses with 2 complete responses in the patients that were CD38-naive, which is higher than what we saw with the initial daratumumab study, so-called 501 study, which was published in New England Journal. So I think it looks good, but I think we now need to really look at a less heavily beaten-up patient population. We're now doing expansion cohorts, and we have already done at the optimal dose. I think we finished the expansion cohort with monotherapy of HexaBody CD38, and we are about to start in the coming months the head-to-head cohorts, which are 2 cohorts, 1 treated with HexaBody-CD38 and the other with the gold standard subcu daratumumab. And then it depends on how quickly you can actually bring those patients in, James. Because I think that is probably going to be the key data everybody wants to see, which will tell you whether this molecule is actually better or equivalent to daratumumab. I mean the initial data looks good. What we also know now is that this can be safely administered to patients. And that was not a guarantee. We were actually quite worried about that. To put it in context here for all of you, CD38 is the target for HexaBody-CD38, we know that preclinically, this molecule is between 10- and 100-fold better depending on which assay you're doing than daratumumab; it is amazing. I'm involved in antibody therapeutics now for over 30 years. I've never seen a more potent antibody than daratumumab. So the fact that we could actually create a molecule this much better was both encouraging and also concerning because the concerning part is that this molecule actually can kill CD38-positive target cells with lower levels of CD38 than daratumumab can. And then when I tell you that in this room, all of you have CD38 on some of your red blood cells, some of your platelets, some of your skin cells; to make it even more scary, some of your smooth muscle cells in the lung are CD38-positive. So we are actually quite worried that actually this molecule, which is more potent, could actually be more toxic, much more toxic than daratumumab and that is what we don't see, James. So we are now quite encouraged by the safety profile. We think it's a very manageable type of safety. And like the infusion-related reactions, it seems to be even cleaner than daratumumab, which is already a very clean antibody to give. So now we know that we can -- we know what the optimal dosing is. We have titrated even further in the dose escalation than the recommended Phase II dose. And we're now going to treat patients very rapidly with multiple myeloma. We're also treating, as we speak, already a cohort of patients with AML, acute myeloid leukemia. That is an indication where preclinically daratumumab does zero. And we saw some very, very exciting data there. There is a very high medical need in AML as well. And we are going to soon start a population of diffuse large B-cell lymphoma where James and I know that daratumumab was tested a few years ago and it didn't hit the bar which Janssen set at that point for responses in diffuse large B-cell lymphoma. And we know that HexaBody-CD38 is far more active in diffuse large B-cell lymphoma than daratumumab is ever shown to be preclinically. So we're also very excited to move in that cohort. So potentially, this could be a molecule which could be used to broaden the market for CD38-targeted therapeutics. And then the final opportunity could be solid tumors because there's very strong preclinical data that anti-CD38 targeted antibodies can actually activate the immune system against cancer in different animal models. This didn't work very well with daratumumab in lung cancer. You remember a study reading out a number of years ago. But this molecule, which is at the basis of HexaBody-CD38, is a very, very impactful blocker of the enzymatic activity of CD38, which we believe is underlying this capacity to activate the immune system. So this could be a much better molecule to actually activate immunity against cancers also outside of multiple myeloma. So potentially, it could be used to really branch out from multiple myeloma. Another possibility is think about the new legislation, the IRA legislation in the U.S. now coming into effect, that this could be a very interesting molecule for Janssen to simply prolong the income profile for daratumumab even when it would be roughly similar or a bit better than dara. It could be a very significant commercial advantage to actually have a CD38 antibody, switching daratumumab to a new molecule, then they are extending the income time line for the company, because what we see is that actually in multiple myeloma, CD38 antibodies are there to stay, they're going to be the backbone therapy for all combinations in the future. I should stop here, otherwise, I will be kicked out. See he's looking at the...

James Gordon

analyst
#17

Too much pipeline to talk about. Thank you very much, Jan, this is great.

Jan van de Winkel

executive
#18

Thank you all. Thank you for coming.

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